- 建炳:
... - Daniel:
兩樣野: 1)... - reiw:
haha,我會努力嘗試... - 空中飛人:
真希望你這個網誌會繼續... - Paddy Law:
i thought...
累積人次:
聽起上來有些不可置信,但想深一層其實很多發展中國家都有這類問題。朋友講到最有趣的一點,是公私營學校教育質素的差別和貧富懸殊與接受教育機會的關係。私立學校的學生所接受的教育水平比起公營學校要好很多,問題並不是巴西缺乏人才,只是教育制度本身靠購買力(ability to pay)來分配資源,所以只有有錢人才能獲得較好的教育。
一談到教育,自然就引申出很多其他問題。很多想改變社會的人,都認為其中一步最重要的就是教育。教育做得好,自然能夠使人們的思想改變,令社會進步。一般人在看很多落後國家的教育制度時,都不難看出當中存有很多問題。可是要怎樣解決這些問題,不同的人就有不同的看法。以巴西的教育為例,其中的一個問題就是如何能夠使教育制度更公平。有些人可能認為如果能夠彷效西方的教育制度,定必能改善問題,我對這種想法則存有一些懷疑。
如文章標題所示,我這次並不是要談討何為理想的教育制度,也不是談怎樣才能解決問題跨代貧窮的問題。我主要是想透過分析現行先進國家(excluding the Scandinavian Europe)的教育制度來說明其與誇代貧窮的關係。
教育的目的有很多,其中一個就是提升社會的流動性(social mobility/class mobility),即讓出生環境較差的人有機會去改變自己的生活環境。教育可以提升一個人的競爭力,使一些天生有能力但環境條件欠佳的人可以有機會發展自己,改善生活。每個人都應該有平等的機會去接受教育,因為我們普遍都認同一個人不應該被其出生環境影響其人生前途(life chances)。教育是給予不同的人同等的機會去發展自己,而最後影響這個人前途的應該單純是其能力和努力。當我們看巴西教育制度的時候,我們很自然會覺得這樣的制度不公平,因為有錢的人能夠獲得較好的教育,所以自然地前途會較好。相反,窮困的人因為天生較窮,所以根本沒有機會接受符合水平的教育,盡管有些人可能天生有能力,但因為環境因素而不能發揮,所以最終社會上貧富懸殊的問題只會越來越嚴重,貧者越貧,富者越富。同樣地,我們會認為西方的教育制度(also many other countries around the world)為人民提供一定程度的免費教育有助令制度更公平,本篇文章想要指出這樣的制度並不是一個完全公平的制度。
近三十年來,英國一直大力提升教育參與率。在高等教育這個範疇,政府把目標參與率定為50%,05/06的參與率就已經達到了43%。 如果教育可以保障平等機會和增加社會流動性的話,在提高高等教育參與率的同時,我們應該看到來自不同階層的學生的參與率有差不多成度的提升。而事實上在1981-1999年其間,來自低收入家庭(lowest 20%)的學生參與率只提升了3%,中等收入家庭(middle 60%)的學生參與率提升了7%,高收入家庭(top 20%)的學生參與率則提升了6%。當中的參與率的差距(the difference between the top and bottom 20%)由14%提升到37%(from 1981 to 1999)(Machin and Stevens 2004)此現象除了出現在英國外,也出現在很多其他國家。
由此可見,在提升教育參與率的同時,教育制度的主要受益人仍然是富有的一群人。這似乎有違”教育是推動平等機會”的這一原則。即使在發達國家,教育不但沒有幫助減輕貧富懸殊,加大社會的流動性(social/class mobility),反而使當中的不平等變得更嚴重。
有人可能會提出類似以下的論點來反駁:
1. 我們需要做到的只是”機會平等”(equality of opportunity),而非”平等結果”(equality of outcome),所以在所有人都有平等機會接受教育的同時,我們純粹依照個人能力和成積來決定誰應該獲得高等教育的機會並無不妥。
2. 高等教育有較多人來自富裕家庭並非不公平,因為這只顯示了來自富有家庭的學生較聰明/勤力,而且對高等教育有較大的需求(greater demand for higher education)
3. 基於這些原因,闊大高等教育參與率並不存在原則性問題。
表面上來看,這是很強的一個論點,但這論點並不是完全沒有問題的。暢銷書Freakonomics就提出過父母的教育對孩子的成功影響很小,相比起來父母是誰比起父母怎樣教孩子的影響來得大。(ibid Chapter 5: The negligible effects of good parenting on education) 證明孩子的背景對成功與否有很大影響。最近這個論點被英國一個機構Sutton Trust的研究所確認。這個機構指出英國的社會流動性(social mobility)在1970年以來一直都沒有增加。 LSE (London School of Economics and Political Science)的研究人員嘗試研究這是否和收入因素有關,他們以2000和2001年出生的小孩作研究對象,得出以下結論
The report said: "Children in the poorest fifth of households but in the brightest group drop from the 88th percentile on cognitive tests at age three to the 65th percentile at age five."
Meanwhile those from the richest households who were among the least able at three moved up from the 15th percentile to the 45th percentile by the age of five.
根據這個趨勢,只要到7歲有較有錢的學生的成績就會超越環境較差的學生。研究又指出有44%來自最有錢家庭(income top 20%)的學生能夠獲得大學學位,同時只有10%來自最貧窮家庭(income bottom 20%)的學生能獲得大學學位(2002)。

"Parental background is so dominant in terms of predicting and influencing people's future prospects," he said.
如果這研究結果正確,那很明顯地教育(最少現行的教育制度)並不能有效地解決跨代貧窮的問題,而且也未能完全達到”推動平等機會”的這一原則。現行的教育制度只保障了formal equality of opportunity而非effective equality of opportunity.要理解兩者的分別並不難,舉例說,所有人都有權參加golf club;在法律上來講,每個人都有formal equality of opportunity去參加golf club,但實際上付不起錢的人就不能享受這種運動,對於這些人來說,他們並沒有effective equality of opportunity去參加golf club。
為甚麼我要長篇大論的帶出這一點呢?我想要指出的重點是教育非但不能解決跨代貧窮的問題,反而增加了其嚴重性。以英國為例,大學畢業生和非大學畢業生的相對工資由1980年的1.48升至2000年的1.64。這使大學學位成位改善生活必需要具備的基本條件。同時間,大學生數量的增加主要令較富有的學生受惠,結果反而深化了貧富懸殊的問題。
在香港,在所謂的band one 學校中,大部份的學生都來自中產家庭。比較傳統的名校如九龍塘區一帶的學校,基本上就是非中產以上都不能入讀,結果變相成了”貴族學校”。單單指出這些人並非”全部”來自中產以上家庭並不能反駁此論點,問題在於來自於環境較差的家庭的學生在這些學校屬於絕對的少數。這些都和英國的情況一致。更深一層的問題是某些傳統名校在語言方面的陪訓比其他學校要好很多,這樣更加使不同學校的學生得到的教育質素有所不同,導致將來長遠的人生前途有所分別。這點上面,正正是巴西教育制度問題的縮影。
要解決跨代貧窮的問題,並不能單單靠教育,最起碼不能以現在的方式去盡行。在很多貧窮家庭的家長眼中,他們以為問題是來自於純粹的金錢差異。所以我們最常聽到的論點都是如:
因為他們有錢,所以
1. 可以為孩子提供更多的補習機會, 使他們成績更好
2. 可以學習其他才藝,如音樂等,使他們更有競爭力
3. 有更多旅遊的機會,所以有更廣的國際觀
而新聞最常報導的也是一些窮困家庭沒錢讓孩子學習才藝的情況,結果造成的錯覺就是有錢就可以解決問題。
在高等教育方面,經濟學家普偏會以年輕人沒有抵押品所以很難借貸為理由,提出要政府出資提供學生資助,令這些學生能夠有機會進入大學。
這些論點都並不完全錯,而且的確有很多和教育相關的問題是來自錢的問題。可是錢,並不是為一的問題。Brown(2003)和Brown and Hesketh就提出過單單靠提升高等教育的機會並不能解決問題。因為
”Those from higher socio-economic groups have ways of fighting back, through acquiring additional human capital (for instance, via masters degress), plus accumulation of a superior stock of social capital – networks, cultural experiences, and skills, and a range of personal attributes (for example, dress sense and accent).”
真正影響這些孩子機會的並不單是金錢。一個人的成長背景,其經歷也是很大的影響因素。
1. 在屋村長大的小孩子,父母多數都是收入比較低,而收入和學歷又有某程度的correlation,這些孩子在成長過程中所接觸的人很多都會是一些背景比較複雜的。所謂近朱者赤,近墨者黑,古有孟母三遷,不難看到環境對孩子的影響。
2. 即使孩子的父母是會教子女的人,在其成長過成中難免會缺乏接觸中上流社會人士的機會,這樣對其日後與人相處有深遠影響,繼而影響到前途。如果一個人自懂性以來所面對的人都是經理級以上的,他在日後面試時應對和談吐自然會比較好。
3. 以上一點又聯繫到networking的問題。Easy jet的老闆就曾講過:”If you want to become successful, the first thing you need to have is a rich dad” 比較沒有這麼極端的例子,就是不少人都會安排子女去做internship,家境較窮的學生就缺乏這種優勢。
4. 另一個方面來說,生活習慣也是一個很大的分別。簡單來說我們可以稱之為McDonalds與西餐廳的分別。前者都是西餐,但你就沒有機會學到基本的table manner 和 挑選餐酒的技巧。
這些都可以解釋為甚It is who your parents are that matters.
當然,如之前所說,錢也是一個大問題:
1. 一個有自己一間房的學生和一個要坐在飯廳中間工作的學生成績就肯定會有所差異。
2. 錢可以買機會。當我們集中於分析單一教育體系時,我們都忽略了有錢的學生並不一定要留在體系內。近10年來香港人到外國留學的人數就直線上升。在香港會考或高考失敗的考生,背景不同命運就有很大的差別。有些人可能要放棄學業去工作,或者選讀副學士,但相對有錢的學生就可以選擇出國留學。高考5F到英國考A-level獲得5A的例子並不算罕見。透過這些途逕,很多人甚至進入了國際級的名校。重點是這些人不是因為特別聰明才能到外國讀名校讀書,只是因為他們特別有錢而已。相比起來,對很多在香港讀書讀得很傑出的學生來說,到外國留學是遙不可及的夢。
一個外國undergraduate學位大概要100萬港幣(400多萬新台幣),如果提早兩年到外國讀private school,最少要多花60萬。總體投資大概就要160萬港幣(640萬新台幣)。以一個普通畢業生平均工資HKD$11000計算,我就假設從外國回來可以多20%,即約HKD$16000起薪,單是要賺回HKD$16000就要100個月即8.3年。如果扣除生活開支和160萬所放棄的投資回報(以2%來算,8年的複式回報為17.2%,即約27萬5千元),最少大概要10幾年才可能回本,如果把中間的工資提升都算進去,就當要8年才能回本吧。(這已是非常保守的估計)
由22歲畢業到30歲其間工作的收入基本上都是付回教育投資成本,在此以後才是真正的收益。以30歲後工資x3來算,大概有57.6萬淨收入一年,扣除生活開支,假設每年剩下20萬。如果以一棟物業值300萬來算,3成首期要90萬成本才能置業,即到35歲才有能力開始供樓,以供20年來說,要到55歲才正真擁有物業。根據某大銀行所講養大一個孩子要400萬,我不知道這個人如何有能力養下一代。由此可見在外國讀書要收回投資成本是需要很長的一短時間,與其說是為了前途,不如說是中產保持身分的一個方法。
寫了這麼多,我想做一個總結,
1. 現行的教育制度並不但不能解決貧富懸殊的問題,甚至使社會流動性進一步下降。單單加大在教育的投資並不是辦法,在未來的教育發展方面,這是一個非常重要的考慮因素。
2. 發達國家的教育制度只是巴西這類貧窮國家的縮影。現行的教育制度間接地使跨代貧窮的問題變得越來越嚴重,長久下去會導致更嚴重的社會分化。
雖然這不是本文的寫作目的,但在教育政策方面,我覺得有幾點可以考慮,
1. 在升中的過程中不要純粹靠成績來分派學生,因為這樣只會使學生成績的差距擴大。
2. 如果可以加大推行小班教學,應該嘗試鼓勵學校在中學時不要以成績分班。
3. 可以有條件地向成績好的學生提供貸款,使其有機會到外國升學。形式最好以income contingent loan的方式來進行,20年後未能歸還的debt就write off.
如果我們不嘗試去改變目前社會的運作模式,當跨代貧窮的問題變得越來越嚴重時,將會為社會帶來很多很嚴重的問題。
回應[右派mode
第一,improvement in absolute terms is of course very important but we should also care about relative improvement. Poverty as defined in economics is essentially a relative term. Hence, the mere fact that there are ABSOLUTE improvements can not justify inequality.
第二,此論點有點似Difference Principles所講的:"Inequality is only acceptable when it promotes the interests of the worst off group in the society" 如Cohen所講,如果social ethos是接受difference principles, 我們不會接受inequalities because of incentive reasons.
Well,我是kind of centre left的,所以原則上我算是接受[左派mode]
回point 2
2) 但這不代表人民生活變壞 --- 最少現在的制度保障了窮人及他們的兒女,在餓時有綜援,在生病時有便宜的醫療...這是以往所謂流動性高的社會所缺乏的。
em...我認為教育和其他福利項目可以是分開的。比方說如果我們可以減低class與class之間的區別,低社會流動性就不會是很大的問題,基本上我認為welfare state的model是可以達到這樣的效果 -again socialist ideal.
回"前面有兩種選擇"
雖然你可能會覺得我這樣說很idealistic,但我不想dichotomize左派和右派這兩個選擇,I believe there is always a third way to achieve a better society/ civil equality
回"P.S."
因為我真係mug都唔做淨係打字....你應該知我有幾慢咖啦....
我絕大部分贊同difference principle,不過在我們的社會,the most worst off 的生活水平確實有所提升。以往數十年前社會流動性較高,但生活水平一定比現時差
既然大家接受了教育根本不能提高所謂社會流動性,那我們對教育的改變(或你以上所說的方案),是為了創造一個甚麼樣子的社會?
最根本的地方,不是有錢人子女在學校成績較佳 / 較多機會接觸外來事物 / 較多參與課外活動,而是有錢人跟窮人那種segregation - 有錢人視窮人為蝕米蟲,窮人視有錢人為吸血鬼。
學校的目的,是要消除雙方的偏見。搞全民遊學 / 課外活動資助,不是讓窮人有機會因這個機會向上爬,而是跟他們說 - 即使你們窮,社會上有錢人並不會丟下你們不顧。
p.s. 真羨慕你有那麼多空閒來寫文。我的腦裏面有很多未organised的想法...看來要待到下星期假期才能動筆...
我認為social mobility和welfare不存在絕對的trade off. 我可以想像我們以另一個方式來發展經濟,仍然能夠達到比數十年前社會更高的welfare level,同時保存一定程度的社會流動性。
"既然大家接受了教育根本不能提高所謂社會流動性,那我們對教育的改變(或你以上所說的方案),是為了創造一個甚麼樣子的社會? "
我接受現行的教育不能提高所謂社會流動性,但我相信將來可以找到一個可以提高所謂社會流動性的教育制度。因為這個問題太複雜,大概可以寫一本書來研究這個題目。為了回應你的問題,我選了一個alternative path 我之前的回應是given現行的教育不能提高所謂社會流動性,較簡單的方法是減低社會流動性的重要性 -> i.e. narrowing the gap between different classes -> welfare state example
在一個welfare state中,教育(可能)無助增加社會流動性(未認真研究過),但這比能做到你所講的"學校的目的,是要消除雙方的偏見",因為class的差別被縮小了。這例子也看到教育這問題的複雜性-我們不可能忽略其他social construct單談教育。
"學校的目的,是要消除雙方的偏見。搞全民遊學 / 課外活動資助,不是讓窮人有機會因這個機會向上爬,而是跟他們說 - 即使你們窮,社會上有錢人並不會丟下你們不顧。"
這點我認同,但這比較算是一個implicit的goal 沒有學校會以promote understanding between different classes/ eliminate bias作為目的,因為大部份人對class這個話題都很敏感。我認同教育可以令雙方更理解另一邊的世界,提升Social harmony,但我不認為這能夠"消除雙方的偏見"我認為在感性層面上這不太能夠做到。(Bias of this kind exists not only because of the existence of false beliefs, but also because of the existence of some deep negative emotional convictions. i.e. the belief that the way our society operates is inherently unfair (which is not obviously false). Hence, by promoting mutual understanding , education can help to solve only part of but not the whole of problem)
只想講幾句。
一,教育本質與跨代貧窮的關係是neutral的,問題不在于教育本身,而在於教育制度,和社會價值。
二,教育是一個社會制度的一部分,跟其他的制度,譬如法律,金融,政治等,在不同方面上都是一種工具。教育本身就是在於一個知識型社會裏的一個不可缺少的資源分配的部分,拿取好成績,就有其他一連串的機會,教育就開通不同的門,把社會的人分流。
Undoubtedly this tool is more susceptible to the exploitation by people with more access to educational resources - in a similar way to access to political, legal, financial resources, or even simply food etc - this belies a more fundamental problem of capitalist distribution of resources, which I think is not attributable to the inherent idea of education. IT is more this capitalist competitive system of education that defeats the purpose of education and its capacity to redress the problem of transgenerational poverty.
3. One thing you could have done is perhaps to compare an alternative model to replace the idea of education or a different model of education from what we have now, in terms of their effectiveness and relationship with this problem. Can some other kind of institution do a better job?
4. Or to be more realistic, given the current capitalist system we are in, what is the model that will help provide relatively more opportunities to transcend the transgenerational poverty barrier - it might not positively redress inequality, but it might be doing what can be achieved at most within the confines of the prevailing values of society.
Say - compare state-centralised education with exclusively private education or even home education - I think public education already gives a much wider capacity for people to climb the social ladder than other forms.
From my personal experience, in the HKU faculty of LLB, as far as i know, about 60% of the people come from top elite schools in Hong Kong, and 40% do come from less privileged backgrounds with much worse home/primary/secondary education. There's definitely still a competitive edge of the rich and wealthy in effect, but that's already as small as it can get maybe.
It's interesting you exclude Scandinavian system which is a lot more egalitarian. They value equality a lot more as society, and their proportion of students obtaining a similarly high standard of education is a lot bigger than many other countries in the world. I wonder how they grapple with the problem of transgenerational poverty, and whether a different social climate and educational system will make a difference. i'll definitely have a look at this too when i start my investigation.
I think your ideas are all brilliant.
Much of the things you mentioned have actually already been clarified in my discussion with Daniel (the comments above). Nevertheless, it would be helpful to reply all your comments point by point.
I accept point 1 and 2. I don't think education per se has led to transgenerational poverty, but rather the way how the current system is running, has made the existing problem worse.
For point 3, well, again, I think this is a complicated issue and would require probably a separate article for that. I only outlined some brief suggestions at the end of the article, which I know, wasn’t very helpful. I excluded the Scandinavian system deliberately because my main intention was to pinpoint the problem in those less egalitarian systems. It would be nice to include the Scandinavian model but it would also mean that the length of the article has to increase. Maybe I should really write a separate article on that.
Point 4, I did mention in my reply to Daniel’s comment that an alternative would be to adopt the welfare state model so as to reduce the difference between different classes. This would mean that social mobility and the fact that education does not improve it become less important an issue.
I am a bit skeptical about the accuracy of your data. Is it your own estimation, or the official data? The classification method used in the article was to define people from the bottom 20% earning group as the poor and people from the top 20% earning group as the rich. I very much doubt that your data would still yield the same result if it was to be re-classified in such a way.
Your comments are awesome!
What i meant was less privileged merely in terms of the educational resources they had obtained - which was only from my own personal experience and the way they came across, as you can tell from people's demeanor and way of speaking how much cultivation one has had in life.
Just an illustration how some people still get into good courses without as much means - not yet equal in terms of their ability because most of them come bottom in the exam performance. With linguistic and thinking skills in particular, education makes a massive difference.
I wasnt trying to disprove your data!
P
(P1) There are students who had a less privileged educational background
(P2) At least some students who had less educational resources managed to get admitted to a very competitive course
(P3) At least some students with better educational resources did not manage to get in
(C1) Exam results do not purely depend on the amount of education resources one has
(C2) Education makes a massive difference
If these are your arguments, I will accept (C1) but (C2) only conditional on an extra term.
Given an objective admission criteria, whether a student gets admitted completely (or at least highly) depends on his exam results. While academic results do not only depend on ability but also family background(and many other factors). This entails (C1)
However, (C2) is a bit problematic. For even if (P1) – (P3) are all true, it does not commit us into accepting (C2). It only shows that education makes a massive difference to some sort of people. The argument I made in the article was to show that Education makes a bigger difference for those who are from a relatively more well-off background. This partly establishes (C2), but I will rewrite it into
(C2*) Education makes a massive difference for those who are from a relatively more well-off background
And a shadow claim,
(C2s) Education does not make such a massive difference for those who are from a relatively poor background
(P2) and (P3) together only show that within the group of students who are reasonably well off, ability and education resources together do not explain all the variations in exam results. (C3)
I would be more than happy to accept (C3), yet (C2) would be an over-generalization
My point is not that education helps less privileged people more than well-off people. I agree with you there - education resources can in general be exploited better by the rich than the poor. Especially in training people's thinking and language skills --> that's why I said in the law faculty the disadvantage is so obvious. The rich kids are in a tremendously better position (assuming they do the work coz there are rich kids which fail and suck enormously too because they are too rich and cannot be bothered to learn)
My point is that with education, notwithstanding the inevitable disadvantage that less privileged people suffer, the gap 'can' still close in in some way.
I suppose mainly for the people with able brains - they can still do well with state education and some minimal nourishment. State education in that sense gives these people an opportunity to shine. All things being equal, these people probably cannot develop their potential as much as the rich kids with the same ability. Yet, they can do better than the less clever kids with well-off backgrounds, and as you say, on the objective assessment criteria, (formally) independent of wealth.
I hope that's clearer. But i guess you don't disagree with me anyway. it's just that i wanted to make some humble contribution lol.


























[左派mode] 教育跟本是上等階級,訓練一班窮人為他們奴役的制度。為了令窮人進入我們的機器,上等階級嘗試向市民灌輸讀好書=搵到錢的迷思。但最終他們發覺他們的上司,總會是富有人的後代。[/左派mode]
[極左mode]為了改變這個社會,我們必須徹底推翻這個制度,像三千多年前的斯巴達一樣,從小把孩子從父母中拿走,接受國家一致的教育,以後再也不見自己的父母。[/極左mode]
很累,我想說的只是
1) 贊同教育無助增加社會流動性
2) 但這不代表人民生活變壞 --- 最少現在的制度保障了窮人及他們的兒女,在餓時有綜援,在生病時有便宜的醫療...這是以往所謂流動性高的社會所缺乏的。
前面有兩種選擇
1) 接受現在制度,但不再迷信教育及其附屬品能大大改變一生 --- 即使全部學生都能遊學,全部學生都能說流利的兩文三語,有錢人總會想到另外一些(故作客觀)的藉口,嘗試解釋他們及他們的後代會比貧窮家庭的優勝。
(樂觀的方向去想,這個迷信還不錯,如果它能令所有人都能到外國遊玩一下的話...)
2) 推翻現在制度,學習極左派的建議。最近在我們地球的例子是赤柬(紅色高棉)。
p.s. 很難想像你為什麼能每天打那麼多字...